Monday, May 3, 2004 
                                     10:00 a.m. 
                      Betty King Committee Hearing Room, 2E.20 
         Pursuant to a notice posted in accordance with Senate Rule  
         11.18, a public hearing of the Senate Committee on Business &  
         Commerce was held on Monday, May 3, 2004, in the Betty King  
         Committee Hearing Room, 2E.20, at Austin, Texas. 
         MEMBERS PRESENT:                        MEMBERS ABSENT: 
         Senator Troy Fraser, Chairman           Senator Kenneth  
         Senator Kip Averitt, Vice-Chairman      Senator John Carona 
         Senator Kim Brimer                      Senator Craig Estes 
         Senator Eddie Lucio, Jr.                Senator Mike Jackson 
         Senator Leticia Van de Putte 
         The Chairman called the meeting to order at 10:05 a.m.  There  
         being a quorum present, the following business was transacted:   
         Chairman Fraser made brief opening remarks and advised that the  
         Committee would be discussing Interim Charge #2.  The Interim  
         Charge instructs the Committee to study the current structure of  
         Texas' usury laws in order to determine how they are affected by  
         federal law and how state law impacts new economic development  
         and job production in the State.  This Charge also instructs the  
         Committee to complete a  thorough assessment of the credit  
         counseling and debt management industry, including  
         recommendations for improving services.  
         The Chairman advised that the Committee hearing would be  
         structured to address the two major issues within the Charge  
         separately.  The first issue under consideration would be usury,  
         and the second issue would be credit counseling and debt  
         management.  Chairman Fraser then called Leslie Pettijohn,  
         Consumer Credit Commissioner, to present her testimony on the  
         usury issue; Commissioner Pettijohn would be called later for  
         testimony on the credit counseling issue. 
                                  SENATE COMMITTEE ON BUSINESS AND COMMERCE 
                                                        Monday, May 3, 2004 
                                                                     page 2 
         Commissioner Pettijohn testified on Texas' credit laws,  
         commercial usury and consumer loans.  Following the  
         Commissioner's testimony and response to members' questions,  
         the Chairman called Everette Jobe, General Counsel of the Texas  
         Department of Banking, to discuss the impact of Texas' usury  
         laws on commercial lending. 
         Upon completion of Mr. Jobe's testimony and response to members'  
         inquiries, Chairman Fraser called for public testimony on the  
         usury issue.  Witnesses testifying and responding to members'  
         questions are listed in the order of their appearance: 
              Val Perkins, Texas Business Law Foundation;  
              Bill Stinson, Texas Association of Realtors;  
              Karen Neeley, Independent Bankers Association of Texas;  
              John Heasley, Texas Bankers Association. 
         Following Mr. Heasley's testimony, Chairman Fraser called  
         Commissioner Pettijohn to present her testimony on the consumer  
         credit counseling and debt management issue.  On completion of  
         Commissioner Pettijohn's testimony, the Chairman called for  
         public testimony.  The following witnesses testified: 
              Marianne Gray, Consumer Credit Counseling Service of  
         Greater Fort Worth, and 
              Lucinda Rocha, Consumer Credit Counseling of Greater San  
         Gail Cunningham, Consumer Credit Counseling Service of Wichita  
         Falls, registered for the issue but did not wish to testify. 
         Chairman Fraser then closed public testimony, and thanked  
         everyone for their attendance and participation. 
         There being no further business, at 12:42 p.m. Senator Fraser  
         moved that the Committee stand recessed subject to the call of  
         the Chairman.  Without objection, it was so ordered.   
         Senator Troy Fraser, Chairman 
         Tatum Baker, Clerk